GOVERNMENT PROPOSES POPULAR CHANGES TO ANIMAL WELFARE BILL 5199

[kalkanview]

I don't understand.

Many people want the street dogs to be supported with food and veterinary care.

Many other people find well behaved dogs with responsible owners a pleasure but strongly dislike feral dogs running around unchecked, causing unhygienic mess, causing accidents, chasing motor vehicles, feeling frightened of attack, causing unwanted noise to residents, begging at restaurant tables etc.

So if these dogs were restricted to "shelters" and/or "natural life parks" isn't that the best of both worlds?  Kapsa and its supporters can continue their good work looking after the dogs, they can also continue with local education which is clearly needed and Kalkan can become a true upmarket resort improving the financial well being of its residents by attracting more visitors with a higher average spend.

What's the problem?


Linkback: https://www.enjoykalkan.com/forum/index.php?topic=10202.0

[amber]

Most authorıtıes do nothıng to help the dogs that are currently ın existing shelters, so what do you imagine these natural life parks wıll be like???
Its just a licence to dump dogs and maybe even cats ın forests.Out of sıght out of mind!!!!
Maybe it would be a good idea to read some of the comments on the varıous petitions goıng around at the moment and see what many tourists and turkish are sayıng.Turkey would be doıng ıtself no favours ıf this becomes law.Even  knowledgable turkısh lawmakers are agaınst the change,as they see the progress made where TNR has been undertaken by the local authorıty together wıth volunteers,long term.
There are a number of ınterestıng and up to date artıcles on thıs subject,Kalkanvıew - take the tıme to read them before you assume that Kalkan wıll suddenly change ınto a more upmarket resort wıthout dogs and cats on the streets - Tourısts ın town, every day, are congratulatıng the turkısh locals on theır attıtude and care of the healthy,neutered,rabıes vaccınated and frıendly anımals.

[brian j p]

Dammed if you do , dammed if you don't ! Agree with kalkanview, Got to give it a chance

[brian j p]

Pesky iPad keyboard  results in bad spelling --damned not dammed!

[chickengeorge]

I agree with KalkanView - it should be given a chance. It is only speculation that it would be a death penalty for street animals. If the centres are managed like the one in Fethiye then I don't see and issue and if there are so many animal lovers around surely they wouldn't allow these centres to get into such a condition as suggested. But obviously it is up to the individual how they feel and decide if they want to support Kapsa's protest.

[Cosetta]

The center in Fethiye is small and privately funded by one woman, as I was told.  The government-proposed center may not be staffed at all and will certainly not be near any main town.

[amber]

This isnt Kapsas protest,its the protests of 100s and 1000s of people and organisations in Turkey and overseas.

Kapsa have been asking the belidye to open a temporary centre,such as the one in Fethiye for many years.It was originally privatelly funded but was then handed over the belidye who now run and fund it for the care of puppies and older dogs unsuitable for the streets.Jointly the belidye and volunteers run a very successful TNR programme in Fethiye.This has been run for many years and was probably the first in Turkey.

The law will no longer allow such shelters as the one in Fethiye but will place ALL dogs and maybe cats in remote forest locations!!!!

[saskia]

The government is not proposing shelters like the one in Fethiye. The draft amendment states that animals will be placed in shelters until they are full then the remaining animals will be put into these ‘parks’ which will be fenced off areas of forest miles from populated areas. There are estimated to be over 150,000 street dogs in İstanbul alone, do you really think they can all be housed in Fethiye style shelters? The shelter in Fethiye is now run by the belediye and houses only those dogs that cannot survive on the street ie puppies, sick, infirm or ex owned dogs. All others are neutered and returned to the area from where they came. I visited recently and was horrified to find it full of Retrievers and Labradors whose owners have obviously realised a bit late that dog ownership was not for them.

Got to give it a chance

Shall I tell you what giving it a chance would mean? The Kalkan Belediye would find it easy to round up all the street dogs in Kalkan as they are all tame (the street cats may be more of a problem though!) So they would be shipped off to these lovely natural parks where they will die lovely natural deaths from starvation and disease because they are proposing that these parks are not going to be near inhabited areas so how are the animals going to be fed every day?! But still that’s OK because it’s supposedly better for tourism!
But when the streets fill up in a couple of months with feral dogs that the other belediyes haven't managed to catch, or puppies dumped from villages whose Muhtars can't be bothered to take them to the 'natural life parks' as Kalkan is so much closer, then what will happen? It won't be long before the powers that be realise that this plan hasn't worked. Then they will do yet another U turn but in the mean time irreparable damage to Turkey's image abroad and to tourism and the tame, neutered and well loved street animals of Kalkan will have become pointless victims of badly thought out political policy! Meanwhile Kalkan street animal management will have been set back years. Let’s face it the problem in Turkey is, and has always been the fact that laws are not enforced! If every town, village and hamlet in Turkey had abided by the 5199 law and had carried out Trap, neuter and return since it came out in 2004 then there would no longer be a street animal problem in Turkey.
We recently went through our registry of dogs and found that had we not had any new dogs arrive in Kalkan since we set up Kapsa 4 years ago there would be less than 25 street dogs in the Kalkan area now. But as long as only some municipalities abide by the law (whichever law) there will always be dogs coming in from other areas! This new law will make no difference on that score.
Going back to how this law would effect tourism, Kalkanview I really urge you so look at the comments many people/tourists have made regarding the proposed amendments to 5199. A great many say that they would never set foot in Turkey again if this law goes through. The petition in English has only been on line for about 3 days and already 2,000 people have signed it http://www.change.org/petitions/the-prime-minister-of-turkey-stop-turkey-s-proposed-death-camps-for-stray-animals. The petition in Turkish http://www.sessizkalmasucaortakolma.com/dilekce/dilekce_detay.asp?id=1311 has already got over 62,000 signatures which shows that it is not just us sentimental Brits that don't want this barbaric law to go through.
Please people don't be naive - this cruel and humane law if allowed to go through will have a negative effect on all of us with interest in Kalkan, vested or otherwise!
http://www.turkishliving.com/forums/things-going-your-area/62645-nationwide-protests-against-proposed-changes-animal-protection-law-no-5199-a.html

[kalkanview]

100's and 1000's of tourists, resident ex-pats and I am sure Turks just want safe and quiet streets and would be happy to have healthy and neutered dogs reared out of town.  All the money Kapsa raises will be used in the shelters instead.  Perfect, happy dogs in a safer environment and therefore happy humans and a more prosperous Kalkan.

Friendly?  In the past week my wife was approached too aggressively from a dog who appeared between Kalamaki and "V&B".  I had to shout at it aggressively to get it to go.  Just the other day I used the long steps that come down from Ortaalan to the road that passes by the side of the school.  At the bottom of the steps is a house where there are about 5 apparently owned dogs.  One has a missing front leg another had a front leg bandaged.  The group were worryingly aggressive and although I have never thrown anything at a dog I had to go through the action of picking up 4 or 5 stones to get them to go away.

As soon as the season finishes and November arrives the dogs congregate into larger packs and the aggression is even worse.
These experiences are totally unacceptable and the new proposed regulations are therefore a welcome alternative.
Also I have read plenty on the internet thank you.  I read about Turkish people having cultural and religious issues with dogs lack of cleanliness in the home which presumably explains all the owned dogs roaming free round Kalkan (so why have them?).  I read about areas in Turkey continuing to poison dogs, the fear the majority of Turkish people have of them and you see this regularly in Kalkan with mothers and their children giving dogs a very wide birth.  I read about responsible dog owners exasperated by trying to rear their own dogs whilst feral animals roam round their property.

The recent poisoning incidents illustrate the unease that exists between the dogs and some locals.

The problem needs to be addressed more urgently in my view and as others have said this is an opportunity to try an alternative. 

[saskia]

I am glad you have taken time to look up things on the internet but you have still failed to understand the point I have made that there is no quick fix to this problem. The government has to enforce the laws and make all municipalities interpret the laws in the same way. So far this has never happened. If you remove all the dogs from KAlkan the streets WILL fill up with unneutered dogs from the surrounding areas.
Also, just another point _ Because we at KApsa know what these proposed 'parks will mean we will not aid the belediye in rounding up any animals. At the moment whenever there is an incident with a street dog in Kalkan the belediye calls us to deal with it, which we do. If the belediye guys cannot cope with handling the tame dogs we have on the streets now how are they going to be able to round up all the feral ones that will move down from the Akbel forests as soon as there are no longer any dogs here to keep them out?

[itstime]

petition signed and shared with as many people I know as possible. Please let it make a difference as the proposals put forward for the new legislation have truly awful ramifications for animals in Turkey, owned or otherwise.

[Dog control]

At last government is proposing something that may stop people being intimidated and attacked by wild and uncontrolled "owned" dogs, a difference which is often unclear.

KAPSA has for some time been calling for more government involvement in the management of the dog problem but clearly it only wants this on its own terms.

Maybe KAPSA could spend more energy on supporting those Turkish and British dog owners who are responsible but who cannot take their dogs out for a walk on a lead because they get attacked by other dogs!

How many uncontrolled dogs does KAPSA think the streets of Kalkan can accommodate? There must be a maximum (and in my opinion we have exceeded it) that must be maintained by neutering but also by the removal or humane culling of uncontrolled dogs.

I am sick and tired of a noisy, well organised and financed group of sentimental Brits, many of whom don't have to live with the nuisance throughout the year, being considered to speak for us all.

If KAPSA really want government to take a greater role in the management of dogs, they need to appreciate that not everyone agrees with them and therefore any partnership with government cannot just be on their terms. KAPSA could play a constructive role ensuring the humane implementation of a new policy rather than trying to dictate the policy itself. I suspect it won't!

[chickengeorge]

Same as usual - it's like your not allowed to have an opinion unless it meets with KAPSAs. I support in part what they do but other options need to be explored too. KAPSA have their own part of the forum which promotes what their views are but which you are not allowed to respond to. Then when someone mentions otherwise in the general forum you get knocked back by all their members. Anyway, I hope the bill goes through. You don't see multitudes of street animals in any western european countries so maybe Turkey are trying to get their patch in control.

[kalkanbelle]

If this proposed new bill means that animals will be left in the wilderness to starve to death than shame on anyone who supports it.  It would be kinder to humanely put them to sleep than suffer such a fate.  In any case it will never stop dogs being dumped and the whole cycle starting all over again.

[sally]

I've just spent a couple of weeks in a small Turkish town on the Aegean coast that has a population of 10,000.  There are many Turkish tourists, very, very few  Brits & nothing like KAPSA. 

There are also very few stray dogs roaming the streets.

[saskia]

Just put the record straight . .

KAPSA has for some time been calling for more government involvement in the management of the dog problem but clearly it only wants this on its own terms.

We have not been asking for more government involvement, we have asked that the Belediye does what it is supposed to according to the law 5199. If I had any criticism of the government up 'til now it would just be that they havent been strict enough with those who don't uphold the law (local authorities and individuals included)

I am sick and tired of a noisy, well organised and financed group of sentimental Brits, many of whom don't have to live with the nuisance throughout the year, being considered to speak for us all.

Who are you talking about??

If KAPSA really want government to take a greater role in the management of dogs, they need to appreciate that not everyone agrees with them and therefore any partnership with government cannot just be on their terms.

You keep seeming to insist that KAPSA wrote the law!! Actually we just adhere to it.

KAPSA could play a constructive role ensuring the humane implementation of a new policy rather than trying to dictate the policy itself.

This new policy is in no way humane so therefore it cannot be implemented humanely - And that is not just our opinion.

Anyway, enough from me now, have fun 

[samson]

well said saskia . it seems that there are less animal lovers than i thought that use this forum

[chickengeorge]

It may have nothing to do with being animal lovers or not. I love animals but don't always see the benefit of them roaming the streets. The new law may be an option, who knows. A lot of the comments about what will happen will just be conjecture and scaremongering.

[Charlie]

Please have a read at the various tabs on the link below.  It should tell you all you need to know about the proposed new law.  This method of controlling street animals didn't work over 100 years ago, why would it work now? 

Please sign and share the petition.

http://occupyforanimals.wix.com/strays-of-turkey#!no-kill-turkey/cf9r

[amber]

Sally - I read your post with interest as I am always tryıng to expand my knowledge of the street animal situation in Turkey and overseas.
Did you find out how they control the number of street animals in the town you visited? Did they have a shelter? Were they operatıng a TNR programme in conjunction with a temporary shelter or where they using the shooting,poisoning and dumping method.Had they trained owners not to allow theır animals onto the streets?

Feel free to PM me if you have more info.Thanks.