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Author Topic: Problems in Istanbul American embassy  (Read 7004 times)

Offline JACQUIVIVA

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Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« on: July 09, 2008, 05:47:29 PM »
Has anyone got information about whats happening in Istanbul and the American embassy my husband says there has been some kind of fighting and there are casualties, we are due to go on 20Th August after being in Kalkan hope this isn''t the beginning of problems Turkey is such a lovely country i would hate them to suffer when more people are holidaying there.

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Offline marking

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2008, 06:41:55 PM »
Actually this is not hype. This was the no.1 news item on Turkish news this evening along with the kidnapping of three German mountaineers. The Turkish media is taking both the shootings at the American embassy and the kidnappings very seriously.
  No one is certain yet about the shootings but there is a worrying situation gathering pace centred around the AK party and the arrest of intellectuals opposed to them. It began with the headscarf challenge and the arrest of Army officials accused of planning a terrorist coup, this is now spreading with more arrests and today the leader of the Green Party has been locked up. Speculation has it the shootings today are some how linked....  Watch this space

Offline kalkanfan

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2008, 07:52:20 PM »
Three dead turkish policemen and three dead terrorist suspects plus two individuals injured is hardly something to dismiss as hype.....and what exactly does "everything has been hyped by the UK and US media out of all proportion" mean???

It has been responsibly reported by the BBC as far as I can see - where''s the hype?

Felicity, I''m sure your enjoyment of Istanbul will not be affected by this tragic event and no doubt your thoughts are with the possible widows and children of the dead policemen.

Offline kevincat99

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2008, 08:05:50 PM »
I can only agree with Kalkanfan that the reporting of the attack on the US Embassy by extremists in which three policemen were killed is hardly hype ...and now added to this three German climbers have been taken hostage in the east of Turkey.....   if this sort of event had taken place in the UK it would also have merited front page news
Felicity you really must stop "trivialising" these matters and not believe that Turkey is perfect in everything

Offline Mercimek

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2008, 06:09:24 AM »
Jacquiviva,

I think you have to remember that Istanbul is approx 700 km from Kalkan, Imagine you lived in London would you be concerned at something happening in the south of France? Whilst Istanbul is in the same country Kalkan is not a high profile town.
I was actually in Istanbul at the time of the bomb at the British Embassy, I actually felt safer than I would have done in London!

Offline Cosetta

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2008, 08:10:51 AM »
While the shootings at the US Consulate are certainly serious acts of terrorism, even more serious is what is going on politically in this country.  If you follow the news in the English-language newspapers, it''s quite a mess.  There are now hundreds of detainees without indictments and the AK party case should be decided within a few weeks.  Marking summarized it briefly but the breadth and depth of what is happening indeed portends bad things in the near future.  However, unlikely any of this will affect tourism or tourists.
Villa Incantata - http://kalkan-turkey.com

Offline Cosetta

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2008, 10:23:29 AM »
Marking, you do sound as though you''ve been briefed by our neighbors! (-;  The question of why these arrests is open to question.  We can only weigh the accusations and surmise the truth.

You have not mentioned the Ergenekon case, an investigation which began a year ago after the discovery of a large arms cache in an area of Istanbul.  That cache included pieces of ''evidence'' linking a number of people to the ''illegal'' organization.  The publishing of the secret document by the newspaper Tarif might be an orchestrated event but there may also be some truth to the accusation of a coup plot.  What we all don''t know is who among those arrested were really involved in that organization and who are political detainees merely because they oppose the AK party.

To say the military is a defender of democracy is stretching it a bit.  The military is the defender of Ataturkism and ''progress towards westernization''.  If we speak of democracy, we are here in Turkey in a democratically elected government.  A coup of any kind, military or judicial, would be a step back from democracy.

As you said, best we all wait and follow events before deciding the motivation of those in power and the intent and complicity of those detained.  The one thing very worrisome is that most of the detainees have NOT been been indicted with anything yet and some have been held for nearly 1 year.

As for the shooting at the US embassy, an ex-policeman friend of ours who did at one time work in security at the embassy also said it is terrorist related.  Again, who knows for sure but it is likely.   There is also the fact that the Int''l Drug Enforcement conference is going on in Istanbul with top drug enforcement people from Turkey and the US attending.

Offline JACQUIVIVA

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2008, 04:40:56 PM »
Thankyou everyone who has replied its quite a heavy subject just hope things calm down when we go to Istanbul on 20th August from Kalkan, if anything else happens please let me know none of this made main news in uk. Too many things happening all over the world at moment. :-[

Offline Kalamar Bay

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2008, 04:49:48 PM »


Maybe it didn''t make the ''Red Tops''.....but the broadsheets covered it today.

T.V wise i dont think Newsnight on BBC2 covered it last night which was a disappointment.

Regards


Offline hel66

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2008, 11:10:37 PM »
Has all this been sorted out now, I noticed that some prisoners were exchanged the other day but I think 2 of them might have been dead, are they releasing all the prisoners  that have been indicted.
 As long as the AK party don''t start a military coup everything should be alright
anyway I doubt tourism will be affected in Kalkan
Save Kisiltas- ban the D400

Offline Em1

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2008, 11:33:40 PM »
Hi Hel66
Do you mean the exchange of the two dead Israeli soldiers handed to the Red Cross in exchange for Lebanese prisoners yesterday rather than the three Turkish Policemen shot dead last week at the American Embassy in Istanbul?  ???
Em
Em

Offline hel66

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2008, 05:47:53 AM »
While the shootings at the US Consulate are certainly serious acts of terrorism, even more serious is what is going on politically in this country.  If you follow the news in the English-language newspapers, it''''s quite a mess.  There are now hundreds of detainees without indictments and the AK party case should be decided within a few weeks.  Marking summarized it briefly but the breadth and depth of what is happening indeed portends bad things in the near future.
  Sorrry em1, I was thinking about this and I''m glad it''s all over
  The Ak party can now consentrate on going into Europe which will be good for villa owners and people coming here on holiday

Offline Lantana

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2008, 07:46:56 AM »
Even if the extremely serious current political situation in Turkey is resolved satisfactorily in the near future,  (and that is looking less likely with each day that passes)  Turkey is so far from meeting all the criteria set for EU membership that even the most optimistic and informed political commentators both here and in Europe agree that membership is at least 10 years away. In a speech eight days ago, the UK Foreign Secretary spoke of the UK''s desire to see Turkey as a full EU member ten years from now, At the same time however, President Sarkozy said that France would never support Turkey''s membership bid.

So ''villa owners and people coming here on holiday'' should not imagine that EU membership is on the horizon.
 
Hopefully, many of those who do come here because they love Turkey will care about what is best for the country and their concerns will be based as much on the future welfare of Turkey''s citizens as on their rental incomes and holiday plans.

The future of the country politically is very much in the balance right now. How these problems are resolved will have far more impact on the lives of everyone - including villa owners and holiday makers, than EU membership.

Forum members who would like to have an objective and informed overview of what is happening in Turkey on a daily basis should find HotNewsTurkey.com an invaluable source. http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/home/.  This is the English language website of Huriyet, one of Turkey''s most widely read and well respected newspapers.

Lantana

Offline hel66

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2008, 05:23:38 AM »
Hi Lantana,
    That was a very informed response, I read the newspaper link but it didn''t say about e.u. membership.
  I know this is indulgent of me, but it''s hard to find people who know about this stuff, Do you know why it''ll be 10 years befor Turkey can get in the e.u. and what criteria are they short on mainly?
  Sorry to be a pain,
  And why does Turkeys political future hang in the balance right now?
  I''m sure these questions have very long answers but I would truely like to know the answers to any of them if you can help.
 Thank you again Latana
  One day I''d like to settle in Turkey but things like 10 years to eu and Turkeys future do worry me slightly

Offline Lantana

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2008, 07:40:56 AM »
Hi Hel66

As you suggested, the answers to your questions are quite complex (and lengthy) so I will try to give you the shortened overview, starting with EU membership.

To become an EU member, countries must meet, in full, accession requirements in 35 areas (or chapters). Each of these 35 chapters may have several hundred separate requirements. This is the basis of the body of law in EU member states -  or in simpler terms, the rules of the club to which EU members belong. If you can''t meet the rules you don''t get admitted to the club.

These 35  chapters of the acquis cover a very wide range of subject areas, education, economy, human rights, trade, infra-structure, agricultural policy, civil society, etc, etc.

In reality this means that almost all the internal workings of a candidate country must be changed in order to meet the EU requirements. So the first step taken by the EU assessors is to look at where the country is now, where it would need to be to meet the EU requirements and what plans it has in place to bridge the gap between the two.

 The next step is then for the candidate country to start to implement the plans to bring its policies, procedures and systems to a standard which will meet the EU requirements. A time frame between the candidate country and the EU to do this is then agreed.

In a range of very important chapters, Turkey has very large gaps. For example in Agricultural reform and economic restructuring. Changes in these two chapters would be likely to be both painful and unpopular. The work required to bridge the gaps is enormous and so far, Turkey, which has agreed in principle to make the changes and has implemented much of the legislative change, has found it much harder to put these changes into practice.

This is partly because in some cases the changes are extremely difficult and in others, the will of the government to make the changes is in question. So this is why a time frame of at least ten years is generally agreed. In reality, most Turks who support EU membership agree that this time frame is necessary  in order for the country to adjust and prepare for full EU membership with minimum disruption to life here.

Regarding your comment about worrying about settling here if EU membership is ten years away, the membership process is as important as actual membership.  So the fact that Turkey is well on the way to meeting many of the requirements and is in the process of an overall reform of society has a very positive impact on every aspect of life here and can only be for the good of all those who live here. Being on the road to membership and staying on the road is at least as important as getting there.

As by now this answer will probably have sent 95% of forum readers to sleep, I will wait until tomorrow to answer your question about Turkey''s current political situation.

Lantana


Offline Enjoy Kalkan

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2008, 10:32:20 AM »
Excellent post Lantana, its nice to have an informed and reasoned discussion. Just as an adage I have cleaned this topic somewhat to keep it on track and this thread shall be subject to more stringent moderation when going "off topic" to keep the flow of discussion and debate.

Jon  :)

Offline hel66

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Re: Problems in Istanbul American embassy
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2008, 07:43:25 PM »
Hi Lantana,
  Thank you very much for the trouble you''ve taken to explain my question.
 I most certainly did not fall asleep reading, in fact I read about 5 times so I could properly understand
what you were saying, this is a dfficult subject but I for one  am so happy to learn something new.
I look forward very much to your next posting and once again thank you very much.
 


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