Kalkan Turkey Forum - EnjoyKalkan.com

The Owners Lounge => General Discussion => Topic started by: collsmac on August 04, 2008, 12:47:41 PM

Title: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: collsmac on August 04, 2008, 12:47:41 PM
We have just come back from 2 weeks in our villa, 4th visit this year and we were broken into this time. We were asleep upstairs and they actually came into our bedroom whilst we were sleeping, I still feel sick when I think about it. They took things that were on the beside cabinet, literally inches away from where we were sleeping. I woke to find the person at the end of our bed, looking a thing on my dressing table. My partner shouted and they bolted down the stairs and out of the door. We tried to follow them in our jeep but they went off road. The ironic thing being is that the Jandarma were on the next road down from the road that the intruders were on.

The Jandarma were actually really good and as were all the Turkish friends that we have here. From helping us find my step son and his friend at 3 in the morning to let them know what had happened to offering to lend up money, translating with the Jandrama, looking at video surveillance for other villas to see if they caught anything....

The sad thing is that we are planning to go back for a week in October and I really don''t want to go back just now. We have been coming to Kalkan for over 4 years and I have always been sad to leave, but not this time.

Local people are aware that something needs to be done about this situation as it is only going to have a negative effect in the long term and on visitors to Kalkan. The only concern here is that they take it into their own hands, my worry isn''t for the people that they catch but for them getting into trouble. The Jandrama said that we did that right thing in not tackling the intruders ourselves as they are now carrying knives and guns....

We bought property in Kalkan because we felt it was a safe place......
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Lougie on August 04, 2008, 01:09:53 PM
That is really scary, I would be very very frightened if I woke up with a burglar at the end of my bed, I would rather let them take what they want when I am not there, if that makes sense!

I never really thought much of the few burglaries in kalkan but now there seems to be a lot, I have read today about 4 places in total, There really must be something done but I am not sure what.

The amount of times we have gone out not shutting our patio door properly, leaving everything lying around, money, jewelery, won''t be doing that anymore!
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: kalkan4eva on August 04, 2008, 03:06:38 PM
This is an incredibly worrying trend...particularly if the thieves are carrying knives and guns. Are owners being made aware that this is a serious issue - other than on this and other forums? What are management companies doing to make villas more secure?
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: collsmac on August 04, 2008, 04:03:11 PM
 My partner advised the Jandarma that if he has just got out of bed a bit quicker he could probably have caught the guy that was in our room, they said that it was better that he hadn''t as a lot of them were now carrying knives and guns (which I did think was a bit OTT, but then you think of the knife/gun culture that is now in this country and it doesn''t seem that unusual.) We didn''t see any knives or guns, they were away too quick. To be honest I think they were too busy smoking to have a hand free for a knife/gun, as there was fag ash all over our villa.

The thing that I think about is that they don''t really seem to care if people are in the villa or not and from other posts, it doesn''t seem to matter what time of day it is. All our outside lights were on, the pool lights were on, lounge/ kitchen and hallway lights were on. They had obviously realised when they had come into our room that the villa was occupied but just didn''t care, was that because they were armed??

Our management company had suggested that we fit security cameras like the villa''s next door to us but wht does that achieve, just a picture of someone (who will probably never be caught) after they have broken in......
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: misty on August 04, 2008, 04:12:49 PM
It appears that Turkey is suffering the same as Spain Portugal etc with gangs that move along from resort to resort never hanging around to long often using small children to gain access to properties. I guess these people will always see tourists as rich pickings.......

Misty
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: kalkanbelle on August 04, 2008, 04:57:14 PM
So sorry to hear about your misfortune and you have my utmost sympathy.  Nobody expects their holiday to be tainted in this way and it is even more sad that Kalkan is suffering from this spate of crime as it has has always felt so safe compared to other resorts.  The fact that these occurrences are becoming more frequent and the robbers are getting bolder is extremely worrying and if this continues it will more than likely deter prospective holidaymakers who are checking out this website from visiting in the future.  I don''t quite understand why Kalkan doesn''t have some kind of police force or crime investigation unit since it is now growing into a sizeable place and there are many tourists visiting in the summer months.  The jandarma don''t appear to have any kind of authority or means to deal with local crime so what really is their purpose?  Perhaps I am being a bit naive but surely this situation cannot be allowed to continue without anyone taking some kind of action to catch the criminals.  As a villa owner I am now concerned for the safety of my friends and family who will be staying in future.  I don''t want to panic them by telling them to lock themselves in their rooms at night but can''t see any alternative especially when children are staying.  I will certainly be getting some of those alarms but how sad that it has come to this.  Hopefully the local authorities will do something before this situation escalates......   
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Pete on August 04, 2008, 05:25:25 PM
I have never understood why Kalkan is not provided with a permanent Police presence during the summer months, when the population is swelled by visitors. Lets face it, its only 25/30 minutes to Kas where there is a Police Station, it would be very easy to work out of this and use the Jandarma facilities in Kalkan.
Perhaps the real reason, other than the usual one of cost and population, is that many of Kalkans population/owners are foreigners, who do not have the privilege of a vote in the local authority elections.

Another observation that I would make, is that a small number of local people have become quite well off as a result of building and selling property to foreigners. These people exert great influence within the local community and with the local authority and probably beyond. Surely, these people know whats going on and can apply serious pressure in the right places to help provide a solution.
 
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: yelkenite on August 04, 2008, 06:24:21 PM
just had a word with a friend who is quite well placed in Kalkan about the recent spate of burglaries.  Apparently the Jandarma caught a couple of guys yesterday. Dont know whether it all stops now or whether there are several gangs responsible.  I''m considering enhancing the security for my apartment just to be sure.    But thought everyone would appreciate the good news.   Bill
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Em1 on August 04, 2008, 07:14:36 PM
Hi Collsmac

I really feel for you, as I was burgled in the UK while I was in my house many years ago, and I hated the feeling that someone who I did not know had been in my house . I felt awful for a while, and could not even take a bath if at home on my own. However these feelings did disappear, and I hope you can put this behind you and enjoy coming out to Kalkan again.

I have bars on my place in Kalkan, which I fitted a couple of years ago. However I now worry about how I would get out in an emergency! It seems we cant win.

I think a couple of well placed alarms must be the way forward whilst people are sleeping, but what about the rest of the time?

Hopefully other members will have some good ideas!

Em
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Pauline on August 04, 2008, 07:27:23 PM
Hi Yelkinite
I think I remember reading after our burglary a few weeks ago that some people had been arrested.   So this must be another bunch who have come visiting!!!! Pauline 
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: routemaster on August 04, 2008, 08:03:10 PM
just had a word with a friend who is quite well placed in Kalkan
who''s that?

a waiter?
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Pauline on August 04, 2008, 08:15:14 PM
Routemaster you are wicked P
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: yelkenite on August 04, 2008, 08:39:22 PM
Hi Pauline,  well if they''re really going for it - the Jandarma I mean - I guess we can all rest relatively easy in our bunks eh?  I still think I''ll go for a little supplemental alarm on the front door just to deter with a bit of a racket if anyone fancies his chances.     Bill
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: bryher on August 05, 2008, 05:32:28 AM
I wrote some time ago about seeing and hearing 2 youths in the grounds of my villa and the gendarme reaction of "you have insurance" I really feel for those who leave their villa, return to UK and just hope all will be well.
Perhaps I am being over simplistic but if the Gendarme, who I appreciate are only conscripts but are all we have, were to switch off their blue and red lights when patrolling it would be a 100% improvement.
If I look at Kalkan at night I can see exactly where the patrol is and where it is going. If I can then so can anyone with more malicious intent
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Sheez on August 18, 2008, 04:48:20 PM
It''s about risk management - fit adequate lighting/alarms etc.  I''ve actually had ''Ironwork'' installed on all my windows & doors.... I never sleep or leave my apartment in Kalkan without my ''metalwork'' locked.

However - criminals are opportunists......& will take advantage as they do the world over - what makes you think Kalkan is any different?  Infact I''m surprised it doesn''t happen more.  It''s all too easy to be lulled into the blissful state of ''kalkanworld''. 

Sad
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: amares on September 16, 2008, 06:41:39 PM
September 15th - we had guests in our villa in Kishla and they were burgled while they were asleep in their bedroom.  The thief (or thieves) forced the locked door with a jemmy bar and stole their valubles - phones wallet I-pods etc.   Not good and has probably ruined their holdiay and hasn''t cheered us up a lot either.  Has anyone else had trouble this month?
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: kalcamp on September 17, 2008, 06:02:35 AM
I don''t think this burglary thing is going to go away overnight, visitors should be pre warned by the villa owners, that burglary, especially of holidayers, is commonplace in kalkan and they should be very vigilant to lock up and close windows. This is so sad but necessary.
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Cosetta on September 17, 2008, 08:10:50 AM
While I feel empathy for anyone who has been burgled -- and we have 3 times for a total value of over $22k (only once in Kalkan) -- I really feel that this topic is a good example of one that should have been placed in the ''residents / owners retreat''. 

Because airing this publicly is going to go a lose some rentals for those of you who rent, and of course it will discourage tourism.  Do you read this kind of publicly visible posting for Kas or Fethiye? Does anyone here broadcast his/her personal family problems on the Internet for all to read?  It comes to the same thing, IMHO.  That''s why Jon created that special area.

Although it is not uncommon for some men here to carry knives, to my knowledge no one has been harmed during a home break-in.  Not to say it''s a consolation but personal safety is the most important thing.  And as several retired police here in the forum have said, never try to catch or attack a burglar.  Best is to pretend to be asleep.
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Pauline on September 17, 2008, 11:58:44 AM
I don''t agree - bad news is aired publicly in every daily paper in the world - bad things and good things- and people still travel.  I believe people should know what is happening and be prepared - not have it brushed under the carpet and find out later - not my idea of being fair to our tourists/visitors at all - quite the opposite.   When I lived in Rome in a paricularly bad period I always informed my visitors not to wear expensive jewellery or carry handbags as these things were being ''strapped'' from them - sometimes with unfortunate tragic consequences.   But I felt it was my duty.   Pauline
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Cosetta on September 17, 2008, 12:51:57 PM
I quite agree that tourists / visitors should be told and warned ... when they arrive.  This info should be in every owner''s villa guest packet.  But that''s quite different from publishing it on the Internet.
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Pauline on September 17, 2008, 02:12:44 PM
If I have to go to a residents/owners retreat where my freedom of speech is taken away i will not be writing again on this forum.  A pity but I just don''t see it.
Pauline
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Chucky on September 17, 2008, 06:16:11 PM
Amares guests were the victims of a burglary on September 15th and Amares has posted on an existing thread.
Her question was if anyone else had recently suffered a break-in.
No-one has answered her question.

In reply to one of the first responses
Can you provide facts to substantiate that "this is one of the worst periods for break In''''''''s as the season ends"
Can you also substantiate your insinuation that break In''''''''s are down to migrant waiters and hotel staff and the evidence that they don''''''''t get paid what they are due?

Are we to regard with suspect every waiter/shopkeeper/barman who is friendly as a potential burglar?
This kind of generalisation and speculation does nothing but stir up trouble.

Cosetta "I really feel that this topic is a good example of one that should have been placed in the residents / owners retreat''''''''. 
I have to disagree with you this once, and reassure Pauline.

Visitors do need to know that burglaries and break In''''''''s happen EVERYWHERE and Kalkan is no exception to that, and they need to take the necessary steps to protect themselves and their possessions and valuables.

What they do not need is scaremongering, speculation and exaggerations.

The Owners Lounge is open to be read or indeed posted in by anyone. It is only  the Resident''''''''s Lounge that Jon has decided to make "private" 
No one is taking away anyone''''s right to freedom of speech on this Forum - provided it does not go against this Forums guidelines.   
Thank you
Joan         


 
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: kalkan4eva on September 17, 2008, 06:27:56 PM
Joan...try testing yourself on John Feds stress indicator now... ;) !!

Seriously though, Kalcamp''s insistence that burglary is "commonplace" in Kalkan - just preceding Hoca''s post needs quantifying too. I''m not a resident, or an owner - just a lowly visitor - but I understood from previous threads that it was actually quite rare to be the victim of a break-in in comparison to other holiday destinations.

Perhaps you could enlighten us, Kalcamp?
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Kalkan regular on September 17, 2008, 09:32:28 PM
I''m pretty sure that if you compare the burglary, car crime and assault rates per household in Kalkan with that in my home town then Kalkan will by far be the best place to be.
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: jfm on September 17, 2008, 11:55:03 PM
hi joan
you quoted hoca about his posting i can not seem to find it could you tell me what it is under or has it been removed
thanks
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Hoca on September 18, 2008, 07:42:45 AM
            The post was removed by me. It was an opinion of mine but i don''t want to alarm people, if they want to trust every person they meet on a 2 week holiday they can.
I will however say this there is a thread on crime in Kalkan, i have posted a few times each stating that crime here is very low and i still hold with that opinion.
If i were to be broken in to the last place i would mention it is on this forum i would not be telling people this is the 4Th time or i have been told they are armed. (What they do not need is scaremongering, speculation and exaggerations.)
I would not be telling people that you need alarm systems ans security surveillance.
I have never said that the Jandama are inept as i know this is not true.
          Joan i would be grateful if you would remove the quote from the now removed post from your post.
From now on if you need me i will be helping people with utility bills.
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Gary on September 18, 2008, 07:55:33 AM
as an outsider i tend to disagree with covering up the facts, it has happend and possibly happen to some one else in the future it seems that some of you are treating it as some unspeakable disease and don''t want to speak about it, i think if they did not want to warn anybody about it they would of not told every one on the forum, well welcome to reality kas and kalkan is not different to any other place regarding this matter this is a open forum good and bad alike you can not be biased on what is written but have your own view as many of you have written about.

 i would rather know in advance as having it just in the welcome pack what sort of welcome is that your guest is here, they have to read the small print i don''t think i would be happy with that.

Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Ahsap Man on September 18, 2008, 09:47:49 AM
Please see an amendment I was thinking of making to the advert for my villa.

''So come to Kalkan, don''t worry about being burgled whilst you sleep, attacked by vicious packs of marauding wild dogs and being ripped off or possibly assaulted by local taxi drivers.  You will have a great time honest!!!

If there are any experienced marketers out there, do you think it will help business?  I am sure I have seen a lot of other travel companies / websites using this type of marketing technique, though I can''t quite seem to remember where?  Possibly someone could remember one they have seen?
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: kalcamp on September 18, 2008, 12:26:36 PM
Yes A.Man, I see the is a dilemma, but what then would you suggest?
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: bluefudge11 on September 18, 2008, 12:55:00 PM
Scaremongery is non productive but this thread will act as a reminder to visitors not to become complacent, which is so easy done when sipping efes  and lounging around at the Beach clubs and forgetting about life for a while.
I know that i would be grateful of a little reminder before i travelled. For warned is forarmed and all that.
 
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Ahsap Man on September 18, 2008, 02:02:56 PM
Kalkamp,  I am not suggesting anything, I believe that it is my responsibility to accurately describe my villa, as that is what I am offering to rent and I will answer all questions asked of me about it and the resort as honestly as possible.  I try to give some personal observations on the resort and comment on the activities and places I have visited.

I don''t see the Turkish tourist board or any other come to that, including, Scotland, Ireland, England and Wales, commenting on the negative aspects of their countries and neither will I.  Kalkan is not paradise, just a holiday destination where the vast majority of visitors find wonderful.  I suspect that most have an inclination that crime exists, dangers like the sea, traffic, local wildlife etc etc need to be considered and prepared for, just like if I go on holiday to Skegness, Antiga, Spain, New York,  etc, etc

However this is a forum that allows for the sharing of information and if people choose these things as the focus of what they think of Kalkan then of course that is their prerogative, but I won''t be joining in because I think Kalkan is great! Warts an all :) >:D
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: kalkanbelle on September 18, 2008, 02:59:40 PM
We always give our guests a list of useful information about the villa and Kalkan BEFORE they go on holiday.  We try to make them aware of some of the problems such as power and water cuts, stray dogs, safe swimming, expensive restaurants/taxis and to be as vigilant about crime as they would be anywhere else.  This information is included along with all the nice things that Kalkan has to offer and so far there have been no complaints from guests as they know what to expect.  Everyone who has visited has said what a wonderful place Kalkan is, what a great holiday they had, how friendly the locals were and that they would definitely return.

There is no need to ''big up'' the negatives about the place as surely the good things more than compensate and IMHO Kalkan is still a very safe place.  Where else would you see kids walking to school and playing outside without the threat of being abducted or worse?  Also I have not personally heard of any muggings or attacks on holidaymakers so come on let''s get real.  A bit of information up front goes a long way to ensuring that folks knows what to expect and it will not affect their having a great time in Kalkan.
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Lougie on September 18, 2008, 03:38:56 PM
kalkanbelle I totally agree with you, I especially love that the kids can play freely in the streets without fear of them going missing!
Title: Re: What is happening to paradise.....
Post by: Enjoy Kalkan on September 18, 2008, 03:53:27 PM
Hi,

Just to let you know I am locking this topic not because I think that facts should be hidden but because I can see it already drifting into a residents section / freedom of speech debate.

To have the final word on this whole speculation of "them and us" "hiding the facts" etc I just want to make a point very clear for everyone. EnjoyKalkan is here to promote Kalkan and be an open discussion forum for people regardless of their status or situation. I have no problem with serious, negative, in depth topics getting raised and as has been said it is important that people are aware that nowhere is paradise (sorry if that suprises some people!) EnjoyKalkan has also provoked some healthy debate and banter as well as helping people find information about Kalkan.

HOWEVER, EnjoyKalkan is not a venting board for the doom and gloom merchants or those just out to portray total negativity. A balance has to be found and this balance, although fine has to be maintained for the site to exist.

Thus, I would like to reiterate that there is no censorship, no hidden agenda and that everything is business as usual so please can we draw a line and move forward. Any accounts found to continue this "online recession" without reason shall be removed and invited to find another forum.

Thanks

Jon  :)

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